Alan Cumming has had a busy year. When we met in April, he was taking a break from touring with a musical he wrote called "The High Life," based on a sitcom he wrote in the 1990s about a "squalid Scottish airline." He planned to dedicate another month to it, after which he was scheduled to star in a film and a new musical at the Pitlochry Festival Theatre, a performing arts venue in the Scottish Highlands where he is artistic director. After that, a play about Liberace and a revival of "My Fair Lady" were on the way.
And in between all this, he had two seasons of "Traitors," the parody competition show that became a sensation and displaced "RuPaul's Drag Race" as Emmy voters' favorite reality program.
«I think the eclecticism is what makes me interesting and engaging,» Cumming said, sitting in a small Los Angeles theater, eating popcorn and discussing the show, which will move from Peacock to parent network NBC for the upcoming civilian-focused season. On «Betrayals,» contestants, mostly from other reality shows (including five from the «Real Housewives» franchise last season), are divided into «Loyals,» who try to win a cash prize by participating in challenges, and two or three «Betrayals,» who can «kill» the other players and steal the prize money—if one of them makes it to the end without being voted out during nightly roundtable discussions designed for the «Loyals» to identify and weed out the «Betrayals.».
In the wildly popular Season 4, which concluded in February, Love Island USA veteran Rob Rausch proved himself a master traitor, convincing the other contestants of his allegiance and taking all the money, more than $220,000.
Photo by Steve Limones for TheWrap.
After many years of working in theatre and film, has hosting a popular reality show changed anything for you? Yeah, I think it has. It's a huge, huge, huge, huge success. I've been doing this for 40 years, so the level of fame and the scale of things have gone up and down over the years. But right now, it's the biggest success ever. Luckily, I really enjoy it, and it's really good. It's not so nice when you're part of such a big hit that you think turns out to be a complete dud, which has happened to me before.
Earlier versions of "Traitors" in the Netherlands and the UK weren't quite as over-the-top or kitschy. When the producers of the American version approached you, were they looking for a different style? We sorted this out at the meeting. I was talking about villains from James Bond movies and how important appearance would be. And I know some dandies who live in the Scottish Highlands who are just crazy. Laughs ) I guess I'm one of them now.
And what was great was that everything that the channel was most concerned about was what people responded to most positively: fashion, grandeur, over-the-top showiness, the immersive experience.
It is astonishing how the participants chosen as the Faithful begin to regard betrayal as a moral transgression, when in fact this is the role they were assigned when they were chosen at the first round table. It's psychological torture. They forget it's a game. I hear people say, "I would never »Could you be a traitor?« And I say, »You could, if I tapped you on the shoulder.« It’s simple. They lose all sense of logic and reality, and I see them start making these irrational decisions, driven by the herd instinct. It’s fascinating. That’s what I like about it. I like to think, »Oh my God, they’re going crazy.« It must be pretty cruel. Last year I said it was like Lord of the Flies with Botox, and it really is.
How often do you watch participants and think, «I can’t believe you did that»? ( Smiles ) All the time, damn it. I mean, constantly . I think that's the hardest thing for me. This job requires me to keep a straight face, and that's not my strong suit. I just want to say, "What the hell? Are you serious?"«
Two seasons ago, they kicked Wes [Bergmann] out at the roundtable, and it was obvious [the Traitor] was Boston Rob [Mariano]. Obviously. They were just "tricked." I guess I rolled my eyes, and the producers were yelling, "Stop it!" in my earpiece. But I couldn't help it.
Rob Rauch won Season 4 of "Traitors.".
Last season, it really felt like Rob Rauch was the best Traitor yet. Absolutely. I agree. Because he worked with both the Traitors and the Loyal. And he operated discreetly. He said, "People think I'm just a dumb, handsome guy." That's clearly not the case. Pause ) Silly.
I also think he's observant and doesn't rush into decisions. He thinks long-term. And as a traitor, he finds himself surrounded by two people who live entirely in the moment (Real Housewives stars Lisa Rinna and Candiace Dillard Bassett). I think Housewives is very much about capturing the moment and keeping the spotlight on him. He didn't play by their rules and outsmarted them pretty easily when they thought they'd outsmarted him.
People say, "Oh, it was an advantage for Rob that he was so good-looking." Yeah, sure, it was. The thing is, if you're smart and good-looking, that's to your advantage. But that's true in life, too. If you're smart and good-looking, life is pretty easy.
When it comes to fashion, each season seems to raise the bar even higher. I'm doing a play about Liberace this summer, and in January I was at the Liberace Foundation. And someone there said, "The thing is, Lee was constantly outdoing himself. He was under pressure to become more and more successful." I thought, "Oh my God, that's me and 'Traitors'!"«
Will the tone of the show change next season when it moves to NBC with lesser-known contestants? Well, it has to be shorter by necessity. It'll be a 42-minute show, unlike something like that. The whole point is that it's more spectacular and theatrical. I imagine the contestants won't be on the same level, because reality stars will already come with their own signature style. With real people, we'll get to know them better, find out who they are, rather than expecting them to come with a predetermined identity.
I imagine the success of Traitors had a lot to do with you being invited to guest host Jimmy Kimmel Live last summer… Yes, yes. And a BAFTA award. ( Laughs ) It was interesting. You wouldn't think that hosting a reality show with competitive elements would boost your status, but it definitely did.
Your monologue on "Kimmel" literally trashed the Trump administration on transgender issues. Was it important to you to use the platform in this way? Yeah. You know, I'm not very good at making point. I'm always a little more caustic—or not caustic, but more sassy or mischievous. And I was also doing a superhero movie (Avengers: Doomsday), and the Avengers cast was on as guests. I thought, "Oh, it's a big corporate event, and one of the Avengers is talking to other Avengers. I'll do the monologue with what I think really needs to be said.".
That's why I'm so glad I did it. Because it reminded people to speak out and tell the truth. We're bombarded with so much that we become overwhelmed and start to normalize things that should be unshakable. And it's had a huge, overwhelmingly positive response around the world.
There are people who are anti-transgender—a very small minority, but they're very vocal about their stance. When you take that risk, you have to understand that you'll be threatened online, and that's unpleasant. But this has been going on for quite some time, you know?
Speaking of the BAFTA Awards, did you realize what was going on when an audience member with Tourette's syndrome shouted a racist slur at Delroy Lindo and Michael B. Jordan? I only found out about it after the ceremony was over. I knew there had been shouting. Of course, we'd been told that John [Davidson] (on whom the BAFTA-winning film I Swear was based) had been in the audience and might have shouted something. But I had no idea, and I thought the fact that no one told me about it until after the ceremony and when I was back in the dressing room was an example of the problem.
The situation was handled really poorly. I was told over the earpiece, "You need to apologize." I thought it was just a general apology for the yelling and the noise. I didn't realize I was apologizing for such hateful words. If I had realized that, I would have handled it differently. So, yes, I felt very disappointed too, but obviously not in the same way as the Black community and the Tourette community. I think they were both horribly let down. As I said in my statement, it was just window dressing. And a good wake-up call to make sure it doesn't happen again.
Are you currently comfortable combining your work as a presenter, film, television, and theater? Yes. It's no coincidence that I'm at this point in my life now, in my 60s, with these really wonderful opportunities, and I'm very comfortable just doing what I want. I think I've always been a bit like that, actually. I've always been myself. From a very early age, I was with the Royal Shakespeare Company, and then I performed at the end of the Edinburgh Festival Fringe as a stand-up comedian. And everyone was like, "Wait, what? I thought you were doing Shakespeare plays last week.".
Do you still have the energy to film several seasons of Traitors? Yes. Under contract too. But I really enjoy it. It doesn't require a lot of time, and I always get a lot of pleasure from it.
This article originally appeared in TheWrap's Movies & TV issue. Read more from that issue here.
Riz Ahmed, photographed by Nori Rasmussen Martinez for TheWrap.
The article, titled "Alan Cumming Says He Can't Believe 'Traitors' Contestants Are Irrational," first appeared on TheWrap.