The last few weeks have been some of the most incredible in American television journalism. On the 60 Minutes program« , the most popular TV news show of the era, was experiencing Taylor Sheridan-level drama. Nine or ten million weekly viewers on the linear channel alone, and yet executive producer Tanya Simon was fired. Correspondents Cecilia Vega and Sharyn Alfonsi were also fired. And just when it seemed like new executive producer Nick Bilton—a magazine and documentary journalist brought in by new CBS News editor-in-chief Bari Weiss to replace Simon—would be able to calm the situation at a staff introductory meeting on Monday, he was faced with a major public revelation from correspondent Scott Pelley. (The word "murder" was used—show.) Two days later, Pelley was fired. This prompted the CBS News anchor to pay him an on-air tribute on Wednesday, like a fallen soldier. What to make of this chaos? What game are Weiss and Bilton playing? Was Pelley seeking martyrdom or just angry? And what will this in-depth news magazine look like when it returns in the fall? Senior Editors The Hollywood Reporter Alex Weprin and Steven Zeitchik team up to shed light on this massive mess. Steven Zeitchik : Just a few quiet days in David Ellison's kingdom, nothing special. Alex Veprin : It's actually a little crazy. SZ: Let's start with Bari's decision to invite Bilton. It certainly came as a surprise to those of us who know him as a print journalist. The New York Times и Vanity Fair — not the kind of person you would imagine running a major television company. AW: I think Bari wants to shake up the show, and she sees her role as an outsider as an advantage. Especially if she wants to expand its digital presence. In that sense, I understand her. Still, it was a puzzling choice, if only because «60 Minutes» — is the most popular news program on television, and, at least in terms of television, it doesn't need fixing. It's a huge turnaround. SZ: And it's worth noting that the show has four million subscribers on YouTube; it's not like it's «60 Minutes» invisible online. But digital transformation is a more optimistic view. A less optimistic view is that she wants to move away from liberal-minded journalism, perhaps even from journalism aimed at holding Trump accountable, and she believes the Simon regime has created too many inconveniences for the administration. What's your position? AB: You're right, the outcome could be what the Trump administration would like—a weakened CBS News, given the low morale. But I also think Bari is sincere when she says she wants to take the show into the future and make it 21st-century television. So, while it's not clear to me that this is politically motivated, it's hard to ignore the obvious. SZ: And, of course, both statements could be true—the goal is numerical, and the side effect is less resistance from Trump. But I'm not even sure that it's necessarily Trump's reaction. Perhaps it's simply Bari's own desire for a more centrist position, which was her main goal at The Free Press. AB: This is also quite possible. SZ: Let's talk about Bilton. How do you think his first week went (why does it feel so long)? AB: Whenever you take over after firing someone as high-profile as Tanya Simon, you have to work hard to win over employees. You need to exercise tact when, say, firing veterans like Cecilia Vega and Sharyn Alfonsi, as Bari did. And I'm not sure Nick and Bari possessed that tact or were able to convince employees that everything was fair. SZ: We've both worked in enough media to know how impossible the new CEO's role is. So, I sympathize with Bilton to some extent. On the other hand, you'd think he'd know what works and what doesn't in this position, given his own years of experience working under exactly the same kind of bosses. AW: I think he probably knows, but he hasn't held a leadership position before, at least not on this scale. And don't forget that the structure «60 Minutes» It's very different from the structure of a newspaper or magazine—the way they formulate their story pitches or how each reporter has a team of producers. You have to understand that they're not the same thing, and how willing people are to collaborate and adapt, and I'm not sure Nick has done that yet. But, as you said, it's only been a week. Or a year, I can't be sure. SZ: Let's also not forget who he works with. Correspondents «60 Minutes» very good, but they also know that they are very good. AW: There's no shortage of people on TV news who are extremely confident. Of course, but that's not a unique situation for «60 Minutes» . Many in the industry consider them untouchable. However, «60 Minutes» They've always worked a little differently, even for a news program. They're treated differently within CBS because they're so successful; for most of their history, they weren't in the same offices as the rest of the news department. SZ: You could say, on an island. AW: Absolutely. SZ: You know, there is a cynical opinion that Bari and Bilton wanted to provoke a reaction - that they wanted to blow up the show, and so they simply planted dynamite to trip the staff. AW: If you really want to blow it up, you could fire everyone at once. But bringing in Bilton—I think it's a genuine attempt to rethink it. I think she wants it, and I think he wants it. They're certainly acting with authority and saying that anyone who doesn't like what we're doing can leave. But while some multimillionaire correspondents can afford that, the staff—the producers and those who keep the show running—need their jobs. And Bari and Bilton need them. So if that was the approach, I think it was the wrong one. SZ: You have a lot of sources in this building. How alienated are the crew members right now—what are you hearing? AW: I think he's pretty demoralized. They've believed in this for a long time, and it seems like it's gradually being taken away. But then again, many of them can't afford to quit in protest, at least not until they have other work.
SZ: CNN doesn't recruit employees. AB: Finding a job as a journalist is not easy these days. SZ: And what about Pelley himself? What was his ultimate goal in that frantic confrontation at the meeting? Did he know it would end badly, and did he want to die in a blaze of glory, like the JetBlue flight attendant, or at least get his point across? Or was it simply anger that got out of control? AB: Without knowing what was in his head or heart, I think he was genuinely angry. You could hear it in his voice. But he clearly planned it—I don't think it was spontaneous, but I don't think it was a show-off, as Bilton said. It's another one of those "anything can be true" situations—I think he knew exactly what he was doing and planned to say something along the lines of a suicide mission, where he was willing to take losses for gain. I don't know if he thought about what would happen next. SZ: On the topic of profit, he made some pointed remarks about being asked to change details in recent stories to favor Trump, and also criticized Weiss for allowing the heroes, as we say, to choose the reporter, a reference to an incident a few weeks ago in which Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu allegedly helped select a non-correspondent interviewer. «60 Minutes» , Major Garrett, although it should be noted that there is no conclusive evidence. What do you think of these accusations? Did they have any effect? AB: It was a bit mysterious. The second accusation seemed to be against Netanyahu, but it's unclear what exactly happened in the first case. I'd really like to know the circumstances; I think the details could clarify the situation; it really all depends on the specific requests. SZ: It seems Pelley's reaction to Monday's meeting was the culmination of a long series of disappointments, so Bilton may have been a little taken aback by Pelley's "remarkable impoliteness and contempt," as he put it. Bilton was forced to bear the brunt of Pelley's grievances, which had existed long before his hiring. AB: Absolutely right. It had been building up, and the firings [of Simon and others] only exacerbated it. SZ: So what now? Barry and Bilton sort it out «60 Minutes» , but do they have a plan to revive it? It's still a wildly successful show. And Bilton raves about the three "mini-documentaries" that air each week. AW: I think they'll find a way to not only get the show onto more digital platforms, but also create segments that look and feel like «60 Minutes» , although I think the first indicator will be their sharpness. Jon Wertheim, who specializes in sports, is there, and he could do more stories. Norah O'Donnell, I suspect, will do more. They will bring in other CBS News people, like Matt Gutman and Tony Dokoupil, if necessary. And they will hire new staffers. SZ: But not traditional television journalists. AW: I think they'll have some traditional TV journalists, but I have a hunch they might also have people from the content creation and podcasting world. SZ: Alex Cooper, correspondent «60 Minutes» . AW: This is not madness. SZ: She's very good at what she does, but is she suitable for an investigative news magazine? AW: I see the opportunity to invite her more often to digital platforms, but also occasionally to TV channels. SZ: Will this disrupt the usual format for the main audience? AW: Well, there's a theory from other network executives—perhaps a bit of envy—that NFL broadcasts are so powerful at CBS that they can show almost anything and guarantee a large audience. So it might not be such a risky option. But we could also see a hybrid format. They've already had a similar digital experiment, as we've discussed, with the program. «60 for 6» on Quibi, which then moved to Paramount+ after Quibi shut down. It was good, but it didn't work because they had a whole separate set of correspondents, like magazines in the early days of the internet had writers for print and web publications, and they never crossed paths. It's impossible to do business that way. SZ: Now it will be more like any magazine, where people create content for both types of publications. AW: Exactly. SZ: When viewed from this perspective, it doesn't seem like such a big shift as Pelley makes it out to be. What I mean is that even the most venerable traditional print product must now play by the rules of the digital game; it can't remain outside this fray. This doesn't mean the original is being "killed.". AW: I think the question is how they'll do it. If the show still has some of those deep investigations, then bringing in creators to create—hopefully well-made and polished—softer material might be acceptable. If it's more of a gripping experience without any of the edgy moments, then I think that's a different story. But I don't think it's a crazy idea to take digital talent and put it into a format. «60 Minutes» , trying to unite these two worlds. SZ: I'm just trying to imagine what it would look like. AW: «60 Minutes» It's rigorous journalism, and senior producers have that experience, which you combine with the audience's understanding of digital creators in a way that makes sense. It's a bit of a strange combination, but I can see how it could work. SZ : Give me your prediction for how this will all play out—if you had to bet money on Kalshi right now. What would it look like? «60 Minutes» in the fall? What about the fall of 2027? AW If they manage to bring the show back in the fall—and I'm afraid the mass staff departures will prevent that—they'll still be telling the same stories, maybe with some exciting new hires. In the fall of 2027, I think you'll see more of these other unconventional types doing the kind of stuff that's well-received online—still good, but softer. But I also think we'll see at least a few very edgy stories next year. SZ: Focused on Trump or something else? AW: I think the Trump administration... Barry and Bilton have something to prove. SZ: This should lead to some interesting phone conversations with Ellison. And what about the audience—will it increase or decrease? «60 Minutes» by autumn or 2027? AW: Probably about the same. This show is hard to close. Although there might be a revolt from viewers. It will be very interesting to watch.
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Tony Dokoupil paid tribute to Scott Pelley on the CBS Evening News after his firing: "A journalist who valued the truth at any cost.".
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Bari Weiss told CBS News staff that Scott Pelley violated "trust and mutual respect.".
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